I can’t really do Eternal Sunshine justice either. It made a huge impact on me because I could relate to it in many ways. The looping-car scene, where Joel can’t get from one end of the street to the other, was eerily similar to a panic attack I once had. I also like how the movie reflects life’s inherent ambiguity and lack of inherent meaning. The movie didn’t make it clear. Joel and Clementine could either work things out, or continue to play out a cycle of ending and reforming the same ultimately destructive relationship. It all depends on them and their willingness to work through their suffering.

Thankfully I haven’t been in such a destructive relationship.

I haven’t seen The Shield, though it sounds as if I should, nor have I watched much of Buffy, and don’t think I should lest I become addicted

Yes, I guess I wasn’t completely clear above as I’m clarifying some of this as I write. Religions, as well as spirituality use mythology but in the case of Christianity I’d argue the very insistence upon a literal reading of its myths strips much of their power and over time slowly kills the relevance of the myth for worshippers. I’ve heard arguments that this death of living myth in Christianity is directly responsible for the decreasing attendance and belief worldwide… But, if you read many of the stories in the bible outside of the theology surrounding them they are quite deep as to their insights to human nature - they have good questions (Job for instance).

That said, there are living myths in the world right now, although the medium for spreading them has changed. One medium for creating common myth is film and television. I will give you four quick examples, three that have moved me and one that appears to have moved a lot of other people recently:

~The Matrix series (I only watched the first half of the Matrix so don’t want to speak on it to much but it definitely has had an impact on people’s thinking causing them to question many, many things) speaks to the nature of reality and humanity. I’d see the crazy volume of matrix type threads on some forums as people attempting through a small community to understand the relevance of this living myth in their own lives and world. Mind you, I didn’t say myth and all of the paths we mentally follow trying to understand them we logical I said they were revelatory or deeply meaningful.

Personally Moving:
~Buffy, The Vampire Slayer – creating new mythology for woman as to their role in the world; balancing sexuality with personal power, intelligence with emotion, etc, etc. Again, this series was much talked about in forums and several books have been published on its philosophies (by amazingly enough people in academia)
~Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind – mythology about much more than love, although that is a huge aspect, it touches on the very nature of what it means to be fully engaged in life (I’m not explaining this one well but that might just be because I don’t have the words as it was very meaningful to me…)
~The Shield – myth exploring good and evil on both a personal and societal level and the often slippery lines between them

A good book (easy read) on this subject is Film as Religion by John Lyden (spelling?). Hah, hah did you notice how it was much easier for me to summarize the only one that didn’t move me in any way?

I agree with you about the distinction between religion and spirituality except where religion’s use of mythology is concerned. While myths aren’t specifically religious in nature, they are used by religions fairly regularly. The Old Testament is *full* of myths. Though I guess many Christians do claim that the stories in the Old Testament are real accounts of historical events, not myths. I tell you, Noah should have swatted those two mozzies, and squished those two ants. As for the two cockroaches, well, we know he couldn’t have done anything to them. In fact they probably weren’t even on the boat…

I think I have more to say but I’ll have to come back to it.

God
First, I realized the reason I didn’t care to try to prove or disprove the existence of God is because in my mind the word has always been a placeholder not an actual all-knowing, punishing, rewarding, conscious (or not) being. I guess the best I could do as far as a definition is the source of all things (know and unknown) and absolutely indescribable. New knowledge about the universe, beginnings of earth, humanity or timelines for life on earth are interesting and not threatening as it doesn’t prove or disprove the existence of God. The concept of God (again as a placeholder word) isn’t challengeable by science instead it is discoverable. I also don’t particularly care if other people decide to use a different word than God as their placeholder, it just works for me.

Spirituality and Religion
Even with all that said about God I still would describe myself as a spiritual person. I would not however describe myself as a religious one and now I can explain why. As discussed briefly here I truly believe spirituality and religion have two different intents and roles in both society and one’s own life. Where I’ve been stuck is trying to explain just how spirituality fulfills its role. The problem was I was making too big of a jump – going directly from spirituality to metaphor and symbolism while completely missing the role of myth as link.

Here’s how I see the difference between spirituality and religion:
Religion = theology = doctrines & dogmas
Spirituality = mythology = metaphors & symbols

Religion focuses on giving its followers truth through the development and teaching of basically unchanging (or at the very least very slowly changing) theology, doctrines and dogma. It is very hierarchal in nature and its theologies tend to be written/shaped by members of the dominant culture. A large portion of religion is culture or society specific to insure the passing down of social norms from one generation to the next.

Spirituality focuses on personal or small group experiences and understanding through myth, metaphor and symbolism. There are many myths that are common throughout time and around the world (such as origin myths or flood myths) although they tend to adjust to the local culture and times. I think you were correct above in suggesting that they would be based upon observed similar phenomena worldwide. (When you brought that up it was so foreign to my thinking the question didn’t even make sense to me but now I am pretty sure I understand what you were saying/asking.) Spirituality has some enduring aspects but changes depending upon the time, culture and even the individual. It is not hierarchal in nature and tends to be shaped primarily by the outsiders of a culture. While much of it is culture or society specific it tends to pass down “shells� of its questions/insights not set-in-stone truths and definitely not social norms.

Up through this point I find myself basically agreeing with all you’ve said in earlier comments which is fine as your words were a great arrow pointing a direction that I needed to explore for myself.

Myths
The essential element of spirituality to me is that of myth. They are what pull me to spirituality. Myths have played an essential role in all cultures (that I’ve heard of at least) throughout time. In a nutshell a myth is a story about deep and reoccurring human concerns or conditions. As a story universal myths are told differently dependent upon the time and culture. They are open to interpretation, in fact interpretation is essential to understand a myth (if they do not need to be interpreted then we are talking about something different such as a fact, fiction or dogma). The details in a myth are sketchy for a reason, the god or gods involved aren’t the primary focus instead it is the question that is the focus. Myths don’t provide a “pat� answer instead they act as a flashlight showing the way.

Myths provide a map for our imagination and help us (as a society as well as individuals) make meaning in an otherwise random world. Through them we can discover purpose, direction and learn how to respond to the world and people around us. A living myth is both timeless and timely addressing an aspect of the human condition in general and our individual lives in particular. Their ultimate purpose is to unveil – to guide us in seeing both ourselves and humanity in ways not normally visible to us (to think outside the box), to help us see our daily struggles in a different context, to show us what we are capable of being and doing. Tools of mythology include metaphor and symbolism. I think at the core myths are about revelation…

Myths are not; theology (they are not tied to doctrine nor do they claim absolute truth), history (history is a reporting of actual events, again myths are stories), or science (science gives us facts about the world and explains how, while myth searches for why and for purpose).

Enough already, what do you think?

I fail to see why those particular practitioners don’t encourage discussion as well as introspection. Or why any discussion is done in a manner which is deliberately ambiguous. I understand the need to arrive at one’s own conclusions, and to develop one’s own meaning, but I fail to see how unambiguous discussion of alternate understandings or meanings interferes with that.

But this is just a gripe with some practitioners, not spiritualists as a whole. Mainly just self-styled gurus.

Why stop? Seriously, give it to me. If I’m already going to be pondering answers don’t hold back and send me back and forth a zillion times let me hear the entire thing. Otherwise I’ll just feel like you’re playing with me…

You’re definitely way ahead of me but eventually I’ll catch up, of course you might be long gone by that time but (selfishly) at least I’ll be amused and have clarified my own thinking.