1. an acquired behavior pattern regularly followed until it has become almost involuntary: the habit of looking both ways before crossing the street.
2. customary practice or use: Daily bathing is an American habit.
3. a particular practice, custom, or usage: the habit of shaking hands.
4. a dominant or regular disposition or tendency; prevailing character or quality: She has a habit of looking at the bright side of things.
6. mental character or disposition: a habit of mind.

You also seem to be using a limited definition of thought, even though you acknowledged that thought involved higher cognitive function. A repeated thought is still a thought. If fact almost all components of thought are made up of repeated sections of previous thought.

By those definitions, if someone worries about their weight every time they see someone slimmer than they, that is an example of habitual thoughts.

As another example, if I think of how to solve a riddle I will begin by thinking of ways in which the riddle is similar to ones I’ve encountered before. If that does not produce a solution I will think of how to combine or alter previous solutions to address the new problem. Regardless of how novel the solution then seems, it is still made up of parts of previous solutions. The apparent “fresh” thought is a repackaging of not-so-fresh thoughts.

In either case they are thoughts. You may value other forms of thought more highly, but regardless they are still thoughts and they are still habitual, but most importantly they do not represent hard limits, as we’ve already discussed.

You also mentioned that talking about a “box” isn’t useful. Do you believe it is also not useful to talk about that box in reference to other people’s use of the phrase, even if the core message of the discussion is that the box is truly not a box? Because that’s what we’ve been saying here, and on the two blogs which started this discussion. How do you encourage people to get past their limits if you don’t talk about them?

That is no longer thought. Thinking involves the cerebral manipulation of information, as when we form concepts, engage in problem solving, reason and make decisions. Thinking is a higher cognitive function. In a “moment of reflection”, new situations and new experiences are judged against recalled ones and judgments are made.
A habitual pattern of thought can be regarded as thought only when the pattern was formed. After that moment it’s not much of a thought but a repetition. Thinking is …”fresh,” so to speak.

The limitations associated with “thinking inside of the box” appear as a result of a lack of - fresh - thought. If one thinks, there are no “boxings,” no habitual limitations.

“Out of the box” thinking appeared at the same time as the 9 dots puzzle (puzzle published in 1951). After that, in the 1950-1960 period, it was used by Walt Disney for training, recruiting and brainstorming sessions. Lexicographer David Barnhart reports that he first encountered the “think outside of the boxâ€? phrase in 1975. From that point on, it fascinated many people around the world and it grew a life of its own as an increasing number of people became fascinated by the concept.

However, “the box” (and not just its metaphorical sense) doesn’t exist, so “thinking outside of the box” is a flawed concept; simply THINKING will suffice, there’s no need to clutter it with boxes and other concepts that aren’t anchored in reality.

PS: Save the trees, don’t make more boxes.

Well said Davey, we’ll encounter lots of obstacles in life, but we don’t have to let them stop us.

I work within a large multi national company and find the hierarchical structures for management to be like stacked boxes. If you go outside the normal procedure you are either a rebel or an achiever. The trick is to achieve the goal regardless of boundaries such as imagined boxes and so become an achiever. Like Government large organisations appear to be there to put obstacles in the way, to stop you achieving what you perceive as your goal. Start your own business and see how many barriers you have to overcome to start trading.

It is said that the highest form of human endeavour is to be found in games. The setting of goals and barriers to those achievements are building blocks in the game universe. Treating the whole ‘box’ as a barrier to achievement will undoubtedly upset the creator of the box or barrier. The game is to win anyway. Nobody ignores a winner.

Play outside the box and win!

Dave

Thanks for continuing this conversation Mark!

True Jason, and the same thing I realised after reading Liara’s comment. For a complete analysis neither limit nor guideline would be good enough because one is too hard and the other too soft, depending on how it’s used and how it’s perceived. If I take it further I’ll do my best to clear up any confusion

Jason I like the concept of a house on infinite property particularly if it is glass and what is contained within is limited only by one’s imagination

Liara,
“Its not only ghosts or sentient beings that learn to pass though things. Anyone can learn to overcome a mindset, learn not to give into the ego, learn not to hide your true function from yourself. We can all use our mind to cut through the limits we create for ourselves.”

Wow, that’s a pretty powerful statement that really resonates with me.